What is the future energy source for mining? We interview Devin Blitzer of BYO Energy in this very educational episode all about electricity rates, powering miners by natural gas through turbines and more! Previously, Devin has work with IBM. Currently, he is CEO of BYO Energy, a company that provides electricity generation via waste & renewable energy for blockchain miners.
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Transcription
And we’re live. All right. Welcome to number 12, episode number 12 of the crypto mining tools podcast. So today we have Devin Blitzer and as well as our cohost Ethan Zurka. Hey everybody, you know, happy 2020.
Right? And I’m Scott Offord your host. So today’s an exciting episode. Devin is going to be telling us all about electricity power generation and some alternative ways that, that miners are doing it these days. So it’s going to be a very educational episode. But before we get to Devin we’re going to just talk about an upcoming conference today. Ethan, you and I are going to this aren’t, aren’t we?
Yes, we are. And I am so excited to go to it. It’s the mining disrupt conference in Miami and it’s happening this summer, I believe in July towards the end of July. And Scott and I are hopefully going to be, you know, really prominent in this event and help this event out with a lot of other aspects and, and bring some new ideas to this event. So I’m really excited to go. I’m really excited to put our new ideas forward and, and you know, help make this event the best that it can be.
Absolutely. So if you go to to.tools/mining-disrupt, you can see here that the prices are actually a little bit lower if you go to that link. So to.tools/mining-disrupt your personal life. If you use the code offered Scott, or if you use the link, it’s going to be automatically applied. Okay. All right. So let’s get to Devin. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background and what got you into this whole mining thing?
Yeah, yeah, for sure. First off I’ll be at mining disrupt too, so definitely recommend that. Definitely command in that conference. My background is more traditional tech. I used to work at the weather company and IBM and doing cloud and AI development and in, in 2017 left full time for the mining industry and did some colo and, and did a lot of, you know, data center aspects of, of, of that, of the business and industry and ends up we are now transitioned into power generation. So not just for Bitcoin mining, but we’re power generation for data centers. So the blockchain industry, traditional and cloud and the ability to do onsite generation instead of using the grid and using the grid as backup as well to be able to maximize your uptime. And so, and so, yeah, there’s a lot of opportunities for, for mining, you know, cheap power. And as these industry grows and it becomes more and more competitive, that kilowatt hour rate really becomes more and more competitive and lower.
Yeah. So tell us about the, the different sites of, or the different types of onsite power generation. That,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what you’re seeing right now in the mining world with onsite power generation is using stranded gas assets. The reason being is because compared to on market, the gas is basically free. And so that’s a huge competitive advantage when generating and generating your electricity. There’s different types. There’s different types of fuel, natural gas that, that you can, you can source to be able to run your generators. There’s flare gas, which is currently being flared up. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen an oil field, but that flame, it’s, they’re just burning the natural gas into the sky. So that’s gas that you can capture and, and treats and be able to generate electricity with on site. And then at the oil field you would have, you would have the data center at the oil field. So instead of paying transmission fees and distribution fees like you have with the grid, you don’t pay those, you immediately stepped down to your data center and you as well get free fuels. So that’s why you’re able to generate really low, low kilowatt hour rates. There’s the flare gas, which is Wells that are currently being drilled. There’s, there’s a stranded gas where the costs the costs to bring to, you know, these, these are Wells that have been drilled that aren’t producing. The Wells aren’t producing that
Gas is still just trapped there. Yeah.
The gas is trapped there. Exactly. It can, it can produce megawatts and megawatts and megawatts of power. And and so there’s that. And then there’s also areas where, where you actually, it’s, it’s gas that is in the pipeline, but it’s so cheap that these oil companies are, are willing to secure really cheap rates for the gas. Well, you will pay something, but you’re getting pipeline quality gas. You’re, you’re able to, you know, be at one site for 10 years. And and so the ability to have multiple sources of, of, of cheap gas, whether it’s stranded, flared or in the pipeline and cheap, for instance, in the Permian, people were paying to, to move that gas. Right. So you can either come in and take that gas potentially for free, or if you want to sign a five or 10 year contract, you’re going to have to pay something for that gas. But you’re, you’re able to be very competitive. You have a huge competitive advantage when negotiating those types of
Contracts. Now, can you give me an idea of, of how long, you know, like what would be the, the kind of cutoff point for these gas reservoirs in terms of like
How long they can produce? Like, where would be kind of your ideal breaking point? Do you want something that lasts longer than five years, or do you want something that lasts longer than 20 years or 50 years? What’s,
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you can be at one location for 10, 15 years that’s of course ideal, right? But, but what you’re seeing and what really becomes competitive is the ability to have mobile turbine units that can be transported on 18 wheelers. They’re just, they just look like huge shipping containers, but they generate five megawatts or two megawatts, or, you know, 35 megawatts. So there, there’s, there’s mobile units that you’re able to deploy depending on, depending on the well and location, whether or not it’s a shell play, whether it’s in the Permian or the in which is, which is in North Dakota and the premiums in Texas, which is re, which is, which is rich gas, right. And what you have is every, every year you having to that decline rate of, of the gas becomes, becomes exponentially lower and lower to where you’d have to drill new Wells.
So what you’re saying is that these oil companies, every year we’re having to drill new Wells, drill new Wells, drill drill, new Wells, and, and so there, it just depends on the site location, where you are, whether you’re, whether you’re in Texas or North Dakota or if you’re in Canada or Pennsylvania. If you’re talking about gas Wells, those gas Wells are going to last a lot longer as well. And essentially one of the, one of the benefits of, of dealing with no gap gas Wells is that you can choke back the flow rate of the gas to get a consistent supply for a longer period of time. Whereas you’re, you’re, you’re piggybacking on an oil companies, well, they’re drilling for oil. Their bright byproduct is the gas and they’re not going to choke back their Wells for your benefit. Right. So you don’t have to move now. Yeah. I was just wondering
You said rich gas, is that a type of gas or what there’s originates is there like a poor gas and a rich gas and a middle gas, stinky gas? There’s rich gas and there’s lean gas. Okay. Leaking.
So you have your gas. When you, when you, when you’re drilling an oil well, they’re drilling for the oil and they don’t, the gas is kind of kind of the Anat to them it’s an issue. But if they can market it, they can make money off a bit, but they’re having so much issues without pipeline capacity. The difference though between the rich gas and the lane gas is that, for instance, a and your gas composition, you’ll have methane, ethane, propane, butane, hexane, pentane, right. Carbon. Okay.
A lot of gas. Yeah, that’s a lot of tanks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they’re all used for different things. Your, your, your turbine wants to have as hot as pure of methane as possible. Right. Okay. So, so
That’s the gas that smells really bad, if I understand correctly. Right. So [inaudible]
It actually is odorless, but they make it smell bad. So you, so you know that, that yeah, yeah, that there’s an issue going on. But but yeah, so, so rich gas has propane and butane in there, which actually derates the performance of your turbine. So if you have pipeline quality gas, which is a hundred percent methane, you’re going to get, you’re going to get the, the highest performance out of that turbine. What this rich gas there’s smaller turbines that can take that can take this rich gas. But if you’re talking about at 35 megawatt turbine by GE it can’t take 55% methane, 22% ethane, 12% propane. It has to take, you know, 93% percent of methane. Right. But it’s possible. Yes, but, but the cost to be able to treat the gas it depends. You have to based on how much your scale, your scaling, whether or not you’re doing a 35 megawatt deployment or a five megawatt deployment, it might not make any sense to treat, to treat that that five, a five megawatt gas of rich gas. So you would have turbine that can consume that, that 55% method it will be degraded. But, but essentially what you have is just a variety of different compositions of gas making up those anes that were, that were, that we were talking about. And based on site locations that you source based on the gas composition that, that, that you see that you received from the oil company, you would then model out which turbine or gas engine.
Exactly. Okay. You’re talking about turbines, gas engines, generators. That’s not necessarily my expertise. What, what’s the difference and how do you deploy these things? Yeah. Yeah. And like are they expensive? Are they like crazy jet engines? Like, you know, what are they?
Yeah. So Jen, so for some of some of the it’s a very, some of them are very similar to air derivative jet engines. They are essentially jet engines some of the turbines. Then you have your heavier turbines. The co the cost for the turbine, I mean if you’re talking about, you know, a few megawatts, a megawatt or a few megawatts deal, you’re talking about $1 million a megawatt. But then, yeah, but then you’re, but then if you, you know, scale up, you can get down to, you know, 600,000, 700,000, and this is, this is including installed and everything like that. Now, now those are for gas turbines. Gas engines are cheaper, right? You can get them for 300, 400,000 used or 600, 700,000 new per megawatt. Yes. The difference between a gas engine and a gas turbine is that the gas engine is a recip. They’re both considered gas. They’re both considered gas engine. Do you call them gas engines? But there’s, there’s the reciprocating engine and there’s a pistons. Exactly.
Yeah. And then the other is like the turbines in a jet.
It’s one, yeah. One moving part. So even though the cap ex is cheaper on the reciprocating engines, the operations and maintenance of that, of that reciprocating engine is a lot higher. So yeah. So, so if you are able to get turbines, finance most of the time you’re going to get, you’re gonna get a lot better performance. You’re going to get 98 to 99% uptime on that turbine where, where with your reciprocating engines, you have more than 5% downtime to be able to fix that off. And you have to have some, you know, you have a few of those and we’d have to have more people on site. And so that optics cost really increases cost.
So when these engines burn this gas, I’m assuming that the, the emissions coming out are much better for the environment than just, you know, letting the flame burn at the top of the, the drill tower.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so what you have with these, with these turbines is smaller turbines up until, you know, you have your, your one, your five, your, your 10, 15 megawatt turbines. A lot of them are dealing, which is dry low emissions. Then you have though a D, G E T on 2,500 what it’s a mobile turbine. If you just Google TM 2,500, you’ll see it get a real good visual of what it is. And, and so, so essentially yeah, I mean, if you were to, if you were to deploy that right in, in North Dakota you, you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t be able to take that gas. So you would have, you would have to treat it right. And so they’re currently burning, burning it up into this guy that 55% methane at 22%. I think that 12% propane, that 6% butane.
And so you, you would, you would be able, it’s very expensive, but you bring out a seven or $8 million treatment skid and you would, you would separate that, that propane, all the propanes and the ethanes and everything like that. So your, your turbine can take that methane. Even though that that specific TM 2,500 has horrible emissions compared to your, your smaller turbines and there’s a lot of where you actually need you need, you need, you need an upgrade to your exhaust to be able to handle, handle the oxidation. Right. cause cause there’s a lot of emissions with that. That’s that specific turbine. But since you’re removing all that propane, that butane and everything like that, it becomes a lot easier to become EPA approved. Right. Because you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, instead of burning it all onto this guy, you’re utilizing that methane. But you’re also taking that propane and butane and you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re in marketing. You, you know, you can, you can sell those NGLs or you can take that propane and generate a, generate more electricity with it. Just run on a, on a 100% propane and, you know, do more mining. So
I, I’d like to talk shortly here about doing this in warm environments versus cold. But first why don’t we talk about our sponsor a little bit here, Ethan.
Yeah, I’d like to give a shout out and a big thank you to our sponsor. Nova block. Nova block is just very young. It came here in the United States roughly five months ago. And in that short time, they’ve managed to become one of the fifth largest pools in the world and they’re helping, you know, shift away the mining that’s going on in China and help to bring it here into North America. And they want to become a leader and they believe in giving their customers, you know, transparency and helping them make informed decisions as to which pool is the right fit for them. And I’ve gotten some feedback from some people using Nova pool and everybody says it’s really great. They’ve compared it with other pools and they’ve really found that it does make a difference for, you know, their mining operations. So give it a try.
It’s awesome. So if you want to give it a try on their website in the top right hand corner, there’s a sign signup button and you just need to sign up. There’s an invitation code you can use type in offered one eight and that will get you a reduced mining pool fee down to 1.8%. So also it’s worth a say that if you have a lot of hash power and you’re looking to make a change, you can go there and you can probably even get a little bit lower than 1.8%. But anyway, sign [email protected] offered 18 and try out and have a block. Awesome. Thank you. All right. So back to you. Devin, why don’t you tell us a little bit about how these things work in, in the cold environments and versus hot? Yeah,
Yeah. So these, these turbines depending if you’re talking, you know, there’s a difference between your reciprocating and your turbines with, with your turbines, your turbine does performs significantly better in colder than hot environments. So for instance, your five megawatt, you know, if you have a solar Tara 60, which is a very, very popular five minutes walk turbine, you deploy that and it’s rated for five megawatts and then, and then it hits a hundred degrees, 9,200 degrees in Texas, it can be derated to four Megal. So, so being in the cold turbine environments is great. Now, now in regards to being able to, you know, you always want to have the co Nicole this the colder and colder environment, but there’s ways to be able to intake cold air to the turbine so that it actually performs as if it was receiving below 50 degree Fahrenheit air and an air versus 90 to a hundred degrees.
So what, what, what that’s called, this inlet air chilling. And with essentially what you can do is what you do is you can do cogeneration. So you take that exhaust, you take that exhaust of the gas and, and you have a boiler that creates what that waste heat. You create steam that then powers a steam turbine that creates a more electricity, you know, 30 to 40% more like electricity on top of your five megawatts. Right? And with some of that electricity, you power an absorption chiller that, that chills the 90 degree temperature to, you know, 50 or 45 degrees depending on, on what your turbine can take without icing, you know, it gets too cold in it. Sure. ISIS but the, the ability to have what’s called a hearse SIG, heat recovery steam generation will allow you to be able to operate at optimal kilowatt apnea, optimal performance rating, which then brings down your kilowatt hour rate in hot environments right now with your reciprocating engines, depending on, depending on the reciprocating engine they, they’re also elevations a huge, the variable factors for the turbines.
It’s not as much for the reciprocating engines. And also a lot of these, a lot of these engines you know, you won’t see anything past, you won’t see any de-rating up until 80, 80 Fahrenheit where, where that’s not the case with the turbines. But then there’s also gas engines that can run 110, 120 degrees. So, you know, you could deploy these in the middle East and, and the gas engines, you won’t really have much of a de-rating. So it all comes down to at the end of the day knowing, knowing what your gas is, but not only your gas, but what that specific site location is and based off based off that there’s multiple way, multiple scenarios to run to be able to make sure that you’re deploying the lowest cost, most efficient gas engine.
Okay. So yeah, T talking about efficiency like that. I mean w how, how can you really maximize your generator output?
Yeah. Through, through that, through that cursing unit the heat recovery. So, so what you can do is, for instance you have a five megawatt turbine. You take that heat recovery, you create steam with the boiler, generate more electricity. And so you go from five megawatts to you know, seven megawatts. But then with some of that power to you then able to air chill the inlet temperature and get that base five megawatts of the turbine to 5.5 megawatts, six megawatts. So you end up getting eight megawatts. Not only, not only that, but let’s say you bought, you buy your gas for a cents a kilo, a kilowatt hour, right? And then, and then you add this Pirsig, this heat recovery steam generation. Well, what what you’re doing is you’re seeing 30, you know, let’s just say a 33% increase in, in or hacks. You know, you’re seeing 33% increase from five megawatts to 7.5 megawatts. So that actually reduces your 1 cent a kilowatt hour cost to
Down to like 70 cents, like point 0.7 cents.
Yes. So that is the, that is how you optimize your your kilowatt hour rate.
Okay. And one question technically about the actual voltage that’s delivered, how do you actually hook them up to the minors, you know, or the containers, whatever you’re doing, what, what voltage is it getting delivered at?
Yeah, so it just depends on the, on the gas engine, it can be anywhere from four 80 to 13.8. Right. Oh wow. Yeah. So you’re talking about, you know, one to two up when you’re talking more so about five plus megawatts, you’re getting into 13.8 but that allows you to be able to, you, you can step it down to your two 40 from there.
So is there, are there any challenges to step in that down or
So what you’re seeing is very pop, very, very popularly asked by minors is four 15 to 40 and you would just size a 13 point 13.8 KV input right to that transformer that would then have your, whatever size your, your, your, your turbine is, you know, five megawatts, 35 megawatts, you would size that, that, that’s transformer. And then you would step it down to whatever your, your data center requirements are per data center that would come in at two 40.
How many amps are these generators capable of making?
Oh, that, that’s a, that’s a very good question. It really, it really just depends. It depends on, on, on a, on a, on a bunch of factors. But when, when you’re talking about, you know, five megawatts at, at, at port 80 you can watch,
We can, we can do the math. Yeah.
So I have a [inaudible]
Yeah, I’ll get back to you on that. On specific specific amps for Porter, for turbines. And I don’t have any, I don’t have any numbers off the top of my head. I apologize. Sure.
No, no, no worries. Good answer. Good answer. So yes, some people are claiming that mining or are doing this data center stuff using gas is a lot cheaper than using the grid. I mean, what, what’s your opinion?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like we had talked about with previous, before I had previously just quickly mentioned that compared to the grid, right? What you’re saying on the grid is that a power plant buys the gas on market. They do their onsite power generation and they step up their transformers to the grid, hits those transmission lines, takes it however far is to, to the end user. You have your distribution and then, and then you step it down. And then that’s how how miners miners get their power from the grid. Well that that transmission of distribution can take up to 14 can cost up to 40% of the kilowatt hour rate. Right? So by being able to save on that cost and the ability to get the guests for basically free compared to, you know, $2 to $2 to 50 and MCF two, $2 and 50 cents, every thousand cubic feet that, that when you, when you calculate that to kilowatt hour rates, it varies. But let’s say it’s a set essentially 2.5 cents a kilowatt hour, just 2 cents to 2.5 cents just for the gas. Right. So when you take that into consideration, you take in your cap X for the, for the power generation and that transmission and distribution, fishing fees, that’s why being able to do the onsite power generation with the strain of guests is so incentivizing and so cheap and that’s where that movement you’re seeing a big movement towards.
Okay, so you, you have to you’re talking about it in terms of EMCF and then you have to translate that over to a kilowatt hour rate. Yes. All right.
Yes. How and at EMCF is the measurement. Just like barrels of oil. They measure gas in an NCF. Okay. Yeah. And so every turbine, every gas engine has a different efficiency. Right? But you would just take, you just take the heat rate of the gas and calculate how many, how many NC and EMCF it takes to generate that one kilowatt hour and Bay based off based off that and your price, you can easily calculate what your, your kilowatt hour is.
Can you give us like a, a ballpark? Like on average, these gas engines need this much gas to generate a kilowatt hour.
So, so it can, it can vary anywhere. A 9,000 to 13,000 13,000 heat rate, which is let’s just say 10. Let’s just say you have a 10,000. You’d have a 10,000 heat rate, which means 10,000 BTU per kilowatt hour. And that’s an MCF of gas is a thought. You know, it can be about a little over a thousand, a thousand BTU and a a thousand BTU, right? And I’m S a cubic feet of gas. So what you do is you take that, you take that 10,000 heat rate, you divide it by the BTU of the gas, which is a thousand. Then you get 10 cubic feet, right, per, per per kilowatt hour. Then that 10 cubic feet, you then you then calculate based off based off your EMCF price, your [inaudible], you divide, you know, a thousand divided by that 10, you get, you get a a hundred cubic feet, right? You get, you get a hundred, a hundred cubic feet that then you’re a boy, then, sorry, I’m kind of getting lost track on there.
But it’s essentially, yeah, it’s a lot of math, but it’s essentially you, you calculate how many cubic feet it takes to generate that kilowatt hour and based on, based on your EMCF price which is like, you know, say it takes, say it takes, say it’s 10, 10 MCF sites. Say it’s 10 ends 10 cubic feet per kilowatt hour, and your prices to the on market is $2 an MCF, right? So you take, you take that price, that $2 an MCN, and you divide it by by I think a hundred or a thousand and it ends up being 2 cents a kilowatt hour. Now that’s a perfect example, right? So if you’re getting eight cubic feet of gas per kilowatt hour or 12, 12 cubic feet of gas per kilowatt hour that, that 2 cents will vary up or down based on the rate. If it uses less than than 10,000 heat rate, you use this 9,000 or 6,000. When you’re talking about heat recovery, steam generation then that will affect your, your kilt, your kilowatt hour rate. And it’s, it’s honestly not too difficult to calculate. There’s a few steps but it’s always easier when you’re running it on spreadsheets.
Yeah, sure. Of course. Now I’m just imagining here that the reciprocating engines are less efficient at converting the gas into electricity than the turbines. Is that true?
It just depends. It just depends really. I mean, you have a lot of gas engine manufacturers out there and Bay and Bay based off how it takes in the gas. You have to run a performance analysis. There’s, there’s a product, there’s a lot of moving variables that based on, you know, based on your gas composition, it’ll derail the in a certain way. Right. And so that you can have a rated efficiency but you’re talking about a specific site, it’s gonna be totally different based on your gas composition and, and, and it varies between, you know, gas engines and turbines.
Yeah. So there are a lot of options.
Yeah. So yeah, Devin, we, I want to ask you how people can get ahold of you. So you can let our audience know. But first Ethan, why don’t you and I talk a little bit about that new cool thing that we just,
Sure. Absolutely. So we have launched crypto mining tools as a marketplace. You guys may all be familiar with our previous apps. That was a, a calculator and a comparison app. And we’ve decided to take it a step further and make it a full fledged marketplace. You can go on there and you can list your miners for sale. And you know, as people go, they now have a single, you know, unified, clear and easy to see interface. And, and go ahead and scroll down again, Scott and Charlotte. So here is a great example. We have the same minor but by two different sellers listed for sales. So you can go through this marketplace, you can find the miners that you want at the price that you want, and you can even filter by location so you can find the miners that are closest to you at the price that you want. If you want to sell, you can go and you can list your miners on there for sale. And you know, it’s in a trusted environment that’s developed by, you know, Scott, myself to make sure that, you know, all of the, the crummy things that have happened in the past through chat rooms and things like that with people getting ripped off and scam don’t happen.
Absolutely. Well, I couldn’t say it any better. So thanks for saying that Ethan. And so back to Devin.
Yeah. Well, well, first off, what you just showed, your website’s amazing. I mean the miners that were deploying power generation for or are looking to source equipment and I’m already, you know, I already send them your way and you’re having, having this having this whole eCommerce platform just as a game changer. I mean, I think so too. Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you. Devin, how do people get ahold of you if they have questions about running off of natural gas and, and taking advantage of this, this flare gas situation?
Yeah, yeah. So, so my company is, is, is BYO energy Dyl energy-energy.byo-energy.com is the link. And, and really I’m almost, I’m on telegram shoot me a text at eight, three, two, four, eight three two 75. Then that’s my number. But yeah, I mean if you have any questions about that definitely let me know. Our, our, you know, our business, we ha we’re having our own, we’re having our own gas secured, but miners that have their, their gas secured, we can actually, you know, deploy power generation solutions at their site, finance the turbines and just turnkey the kilowatt hour kilowatt hour and meet with the PPA.
Awesome. Well, I think there’s going to be a lot of people Googling you now and, and yeah. There’ll be looking for a Devin Blitzer. So it’s cause you’re so popular and you’re listening. Oh yeah. If I ever have really bad gas and I don’t know what to do with it, I’m calling you first Devon.
Yeah. I mean you’re going to see an oil company. Oil companies are, are going to start doing this on their own. They’re going to become miners and so, so yeah, they have some shitty guests.
Yeah. Just on the way out here rain, I think that’s what I say it. Rain cotton says good discussion. And can you speak to the O and M and interval overhaul costs on a per kilowatt basis for gen sets? I don’t even understand what that sentence. Yeah,
Yeah, yeah. So it just depends if it’s, if it’s the reciprocating engine or if it’s, if it’s a gas turbine for instance, on a five on a five megawatt gas turbine, like a solar to overhaul it, we’ll just call a million million bucks, right. Just to overhaul it. And that, that rate is about a half a cent, a kilt. That’s about a half a cent, a kilowatt hour. So maybe a little less to overhaul that turbine. And it just depends on, on if you want to do, you know, if you do a service agreement with the OEM or a non OEM, they’re going to be the ones servicing, servicing the the turbine for you. So you can either decide to, to include the overhaul cost and that LTSA which they’ll, they’ll service for you or you can just do a, an a, a service agreement without, without the overhaul. But essentially you were looking at a less, less than a sense, anywhere from half a cent to a sense for a service agreement where, you know the, the OEM would, would replace the overhaul or it would be included in terms of reciprocating engines, you’re looking at you know, 50 to 60% of the, the, the turbine, the gas reciprocating engine costs to to overhaul late.
And you’re looking at about it just depends on the engine but twice, twice the cost for, for a servicing and servicing the turbine.
Right. So lower, lower capics but not the turbine. Sorry, the gas engine. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Well great. Thanks for that last minute question there and Devin, thanks for coming on our show. We’ll yeah,
I really appreciate your you sir.
Okay, bye. Bye. All right, so thanks again to our sponsor Nova Block. They have a mining pool at novablock.com and if you go to their website, go to the right hand corner. There is a signup button, click the sign up button and you can enter the invitation code offord18 and you can get a reduction in your pool fees down to 1.8%.