Jan Čapek of Braiins & Slush Pool will be a guest on the Crypto Mining Tools Podcast tomorrow at 1pm CST. Participate in the live recording with your questions and comments about their new BOSminer with Stratum V2 implementation. From a literal back-of-a-napkin concept to a full-featured CGminer alternative, BOSminer is a new standard for mining software written in Rust language. BOSminer is a full-featured CGminer replacement made by Braiins.
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All right. Welcome everybody to the crypto mining tools podcast. And today we’re here with a special guest, Jan. Becky,
Let me fix it a bit. My name is young topic.
All right. Young chop young right there guys right there. Young shopper and our co and our cohost Ethan Zerka. So yeah, we’re excited today to, Hey everybody. Ethan here. Yup. We’re excited today to have you. John, thanks for having me. We wanted to hear all about what you guys have been up to recently at brains. It sounds like you guys have some exciting stuff that you know, has gone literally from the, the back of a napkin you know, concept to now a full fledged operating system, right? Yeah. Tell us the story. I want to hear it. Okay.
So the story started somewhere around 2017 when we started playing with a firmer for at that time a miner’s called dragon mint. And we were actually looking at how to make that machine work with the current stratum protocol. And the basic problem was, you know, adding async boost support and just try to a protocol. It was called version rolling. So we did those changes and it was the time where we actually started developing as a firmware thinking that this could become something that the manufacturer could be interested in, but eventually they turned us down with, with this project. But we already had all this code base that was like the basic operating system running open WRT, which is a Linux distribution. And we built a bunch of tools on top of it and we have integrated CG minor clone that that manufacturer was using at the time.
I was, you know, Silicon. But since we didn’t have a use for it and the, and the amount of vegan Mintz was so small and eventually not such a good heart for we actually found out since people are the manufacturers seem to copay from each other. But the control board was very similar to what was running in a nine. So we were like, okay, since we do have the project, let’s give it a name. And that’s it to a Snyder. And back in 2017, this Arthur was super popular. So that’s how brain psoas started as a, as an operating system that just integrated the BM minor at that time. That was a snapshot of sources of BMI, which is a CG manic clone made by Whitman that they published last time like a year or two years ago before 2017 and we started like, you know, editing patches and all the fixes that were never published to it.
And the, at the end, the point was that technically the firmer components for us nine were open source. But for somebody to take all the bits and pieces from the website, get hop or whatever and put it together, it was quite challenging. So we were thinking, let’s, let’s have a small Linux distribution, which is sort of an industry standard based on open that we are T and let’s just make it a into, into a, an open source firmware for, for minors. So that’s how it started. And after a couple of releases, it took us like a one a year. We started feeling that the main problem is that if you want to start adding new devices, the current code base of CG minor is so you know, broken from, from being touched from different manufacturers. And in fact every manufacturer is running their own clone or the source code.
They were like, well, there’s no way we can ever maintain this because we were like maintaining one clone for, for an NSI. And we still had the original closed for Draeger elements. So the original brace. So S actually came out with support for two major heart versus nines and the, and the driven mints since you already had it. But we were like, okay, now since we have a baseline, we do have to start working on a, on a new software component that is actually the heart of the minor and replace the CG minor with something that would be maintainable. I would be easy to extend with support for different backend drivers. Like back in the day when, when, when CG might’ve started, it was a CPU minor release. And eventually it turned into GPU minor and P and people were developing different colonels and drivers for different setups, but it was like meant to run on a PC.
So the platform was pretty much the same. This has changed quite a bit because with, with the upcoming ACX, the manufacturers also started manufacturing parts of the, of the, you know, the software stack that are the operating system, the boot loaders and all these things that they somehow download it from the internet and started like building their whole firmer images. It was nothing standard. Yeah, so this is, these were the beginnings and probably, I don’t know, in 2018 we decided, okay, let’s, after one year of development base, so let’s, let’s just start a new project, which would be this component and we would call it the Vos minor, which would replace the CG minor. And yesterday was the day when we eventually released a public stable version, something that that is actually already meant to be used on the actual devices.
We did have to produce one was presented in Baltic Honeybadger in September and one came out shortly before Christmas, if I remember correctly. But these were more meant as a, as a previous you know, to show that we can, you know, handle everything. We do have all the components necessary to assemble a firmer, complete different from, from open source software, including the FPJ code, which is a, for example, for NES nine if VGA code is a very critical component, which is staying a small secret and closed source from the manufacturer currently. And that was actually one of the reasons why the whole [inaudible] affair came because the current architecture of the minor it’s really a very complex that’s coming from the, from, from the manufacturer. And they are using this FPJ to actually hide away the details of the heart, not just doing the real time work, but it’s also really doing a lot of translation work from, from a stratum job to something that the chips on the hash boards do understand, which we think could be for two reasons.
You could think, okay, maybe this is for performance, but what we did, we really simplify the PGA code. So that is not the reason. But another reason is that if you may the this component of very complex, you can hide things. And one of the things that was not documented and you would just see small traces in the source code was how to make it, you know, roll the version beds so that you could use four mid States and the AC. So this is a, a story of [inaudible] and BOS minor in three minutes, I will say.
Wow. That’s, that’s very interesting to hear. Cause I, I was actually working with how long mining during that whole thing back there the other year. And so I, I kind of saw the progression you know, working with the, the very first pool which was slash pool to get that AC boost implemented. And then there was a few other pools that that came in line as well. But yeah, so, so it sounds like you’ve really made a lot of progress.
Yeah, it’s been a very interesting a year or even two in this era and I’m really happy we decided to start into it. One of the reasons was that we as a pool always wanted to extend the, you know, the services and extend the whole software stack. So you would start with the firmware going up to the pool and everything is well tested and integrated with each other. At the same time, we just didn’t want to have the standard practice saying, Oh, if you’re using our firmware, that means you cannot mine with any other pool. That was not the intention. Our intention since were, we’ve been in the industry from the very beginning was that we wanted to stay transparent and we do like open source. So we thought that the you know, the ecosystem deserves having something, a very standard and something that is reaching quality.
Because if you think about it Bitcoin is built around open source software between course open source. It needs to be open source because otherwise people could not trust it. Right. And at the same time Bitcoin mining the itself is the critical part for, for the Bitcoin blockchain because it’s securing it. But when you look at what is actually securing the blockchain, I assure you know what it is like, do you know, like what’s inside of these devices? Like, I mean, we had this and lead affair where there was a, a super feature where the manufacturer could remotely control the machines even though they advertise it as a, it’s a service to the customers. But it should have been then a feature, but it should have been then advertised and like explained. And you wouldn’t be able to do an opt in. But I mean without knowing and it was actually the Snapchat, all the sources that we had for, for BM minor when we took it from get hub, you would see in the history where they actually removed the, the coach did the control.
So I, I have two questions and you know, you’ve already talked about some of it, but just to, to summarize, what does this new BOS really mean to the end user. You’re like, like the, the minor or the mining farm. And then the second question is what does this mean for other manufacturers of basic mining machines?
Okay. so with this release we decided to split the product into two parts. The first part is the community edition, which is still called
. And what that means is that we wanted to provide sort of like industry standards for mining firmware, including all the parts. Right now we’re supporting [inaudible] as nine IJ and plainness nine, and we’re working on the 17 support. However, the, the baseline it has been set, we do also support the new mining protocol or draft code strategy too because a lot of mining farms, especially in Russia, have been calling for some security. So this is one of the features of the protocol except for it’s more efficient because it’s binary, you know, it doesn’t, it doesn’t take so much bandwidth. It has features like this, so it’s, it’s more efficient and it is secure.
So basically you are authenticating the server that you’re connecting to based on some public encryption key that you sat in the, in the minor. And this is the key that is actually given to you as a full URL and public published on the, on the pool. So this secures the connection. So this, this ICO as a, as a big benefit for the community edition because now it’s a full stack that we can say it’s open source, it’s also secure if you’re using it. Then the second part is called brain source plus where we try to come up with a commercial product. And that part has a closed source component, which is the BOS minor plus, which does auto tuning because minors recalling some, you know, automated settings of the chips to find the optimum performance. So we decided, okay, let’s, let’s monetize it.
And since we see that there are other vendors in the industry that do kind of a similar thing one motivation for us, we didn’t want to break their business model, like say, okay, we’re going to do like open source everything. But at the same time we also wanted to pay for the development that has been the development effort that has been put into brain sows software stack. So these are the two parts. Second part of the question you mentioned was what do we expect is going to happen with the manufacturers? Yeah, my my dream, but just taking the quotes is that I would like this operating system to be on every single device in the world, right. Probably is not going to happen. But first we want to provide a reference implementation of V2.
So technically if a manufacturer wants to port or adapt a veto, right, they could, they could, they could just clone this. But I want to point out it’s a, a GPL with small condition because we wrote the software from scratch so we can set the license. So the BOS minor itself is as GPL. So if any manufacturer decides to take it and clone and fork, it will be very happy to accept their merchant requests. So, or pull requests on the, on the get hub so that they could, you know keep the license break the license. Which kind of became also an industry standard. There are no two manufacturers out there that would be like properly publishing the sources of their work. But we do all know that they’re using a lot of components that are essentially GPL, including the Linux kernel, which they don’t publish, which I think is a violation of the licensing. I mean, I have no personal motivation to do any kind of like legal hunting or whatever. But
A few months ago a guy named James Hilliard who has made a lot of con contributions to CG minor, actually was able to get websites like Amazon to stop allowing people to sell [inaudible] for a period of time because he, he claimed that he was you know, the author or copyright holder. And so that was kind of interesting. You know, he was playing around with that and are trying to look for ways to prevent a company like from have that, that advantage and being able to use this open source software without dealing with, with the licensing. So yeah, that, that was, that was an interesting thing back then. Now that you’re talking about this open source you’re saying that you would ideally love for all manufacturers to put this on their minors. What’s, what’s the main reason why manufacturers wouldn’t do that?
Oh, they would be losing control. I mean, if, if I also manufacture, I would have to decide if I want to lose some of the control because now they, if they, if they keep their own policy, like let’s look at what’s minor for example. So that we just don’t talk about Bitmain. Their machine is like completely closed. I mean, you, you don’t get a serial console on the, on the latest hardware. You just, you cannot log into it easily or actually there’s an SSH access, but you don’t have the [inaudible] access. So you, you know, you cannot refresh it if you want it to. They, most of the companies do explain this, Oh, we’re protecting our customers so that they don’t cause any harm to, you know, to the, to the machines so that we can actually so that they get qualified for the warranty or the problem that I see, and this, I do understand it, but it’s sort of like jailbreaking your phone or it’s a pretty common practice on, on Android. If you buy a new phone these days, you can actually, when you, when you reset to recovery, you can actually jailbreak it. But it just says you are losing all your warranties, which is questionable if how legal this is. But you have an option. It’s your decision that you are doing anything that you want with the device. Whereas with this case it kind of sounds like as if you had the device least not, but not you know, purchased. Are you renting the miners for the price? I’m not sure about it.
There. There have been many laws evoked there’s the right to repair law in the United States that have, that have challenged this. Producers like Sony, I don’t know if you’ve heard about the Sony PlayStation, but you used to be able to jailbreak the PlayStation and put a custom operating system on the Sony PlayStation. And in doing so, when Sony found out they actually sued the person who did this, but they lost because the guy has a right to repair and he does have total ownership. So the courts have firm that when you purchase a device, you are in fact the total owner of the device and you do have a right to modify and change it how you see fit. Now if your modifications or changes do break something in the device, it is up to the manufacturer to prove that your changes in your modifications caused to break. And upon proving that, then they can deny your warranty, but the burden of proof is on them. It’s not on you.
Hm. Interesting. maybe the, the, the difference here is that the big farms, they, they want to keep their purchase contracts, right? So if, if they kind of try pushing the manufacturer in this position chances are they may not be able to get the next batch of the devices. So it’s, it’s like a two, a two edge sword, right? You, I mean from like ethical and moral perspective, things are very clear. Everything open source I want full access, I want to play with it, everything. But at the same time there’s people who want to do business and it goes down more to the point that you don’t have such a big choice of the brands. Right? How many different, you know, minor brands can you buy that you would trust that are like, that they are competitive enough and that they’re kind of like reliable and not too many.
So it goes down that the manufacturers do guard their intellectual property rights very strongly and they believe that something could you know, escape or whatever could be discovered that might help their competition. But on the other hand, you, you, I’m sure that the competition just knows all the bits and pieces of you know, all the other competition. So it kind of doesn’t make sense from this point of view, but this is how it is. We’re trying to straighten out at least the software part basically saying there’s an alternative that if you don’t want to trust the, the original fervor or you have other concerns, you would, you know, have tuning or whatever. Here is an alternative and you can try it and see what happens.
Well, it, it goes beyond that. It’s, it’s, you know, you are an enhancement upon what was initially, you know, put into the device. So the initial from where, you know, I’m sure there were many compromises made one way or another either to retain control or you know, to, to have something going on in the background that they don’t want you knowing about or whatnot, but what you are, you’re a, you know, a no nonsense alternative that will give the users or empower the users to really stretch the legs of the machine and get everything that they can out of it.
There was also the motivation where we started digging into the async was back in back in 2017 when we started with the distribution. When I first looked at it that this is actually a very interesting story too. I was like, okay, so there’s people who claim on Bitcoin talk, they can do a boost, but for some reason they cannot use it. And since the [inaudible] mining configure extension was already in place, so it was just easy to use it. I started digging into the sources and I would see like small traces like where you could enable something called like, I don’t know if they call it even mid States, maybe like four mistakes. Misstate is a buzzword. It’s a special trip. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a state in which your shop function S so basically the way you provide a work to the miners, you have to provide the first stage of the checkout correlation that you make on your computer.
So on the CPU, on the control board, and then you ship it with some remaining parts of the Bitcoin block header. And if you actually ship for missed days except instead of one that’s where the AC goose comes in place because the chips actually can share some calculation when they’re trying to find the knowns, which is converted into saving the energy because they are not using all the Gates. So that is the trick. And when you are trying to discover like why does this all work? We were like, okay, so it shouldn’t be that easy. So sorry, that difficult. So we enabled it and we were like surprise that. Okay. So we see our immediate, like a drop in energy consumption by the claims amounts and the internet, which was like with four myths that you will start in person immediately, but the results were broken.
They were like, ah, they were not valid shares in terms of Bitcoin protocol. And that was the reason I was like, okay, but this stupid SPGA which was standing between your CG miner and the hash boards was doing some weird magic. There was just, you know, the result was that the, the shares mined by the, by those dashboards were not valid. So like, okay, let’s find out if we can configure the FPGA, but it’s like a black box and you’re like trying to pull like random strings. And we were like, this is a complete waste of time. Let’s start our own initiative. And we’re like, okay, we’re going to write open source at FPGA. And that’s when we started with the idea of we also want to write a new mining software because we didn’t want to integrate this support into the old software.
And we published a report on this. And within a week between would publish a new firmware that would support it right away, but they actually had a bug in it. So when you install the firmware, it would not mine again, correctly. The FPG, we took the FPJ binary code into implanted into brain. So as speaker, we’ve been using it as a component, as a black box, and immediately we had AC booze. So technically the brain, so S was the first working firmware in the world that would, you know, work with assign a signal. So the question is if they already had it things, they fixed it within like three, four hours, but I was like, fuck, I mean they, so this, these are like all the interesting insights about, about researching all the different, the hidden features. But as far as I know after our research we don’t know about any more hidden features in an assignment. So there’s no magic switch. No more Easter egg? No. No. Tell us,
Tell us about the, the newest generation gear, the
. I know that you, you said you’ve, you’ve had a little bit of work. Have you found any Easter eggs or anything interesting going on with the newest general?
Okay. we we were looking at the, the evolution of starting from [inaudible] K two S 11 S 15 and a 17. I’m skipping the T versions. They’re like slightly different, but at the same time they, they differ mostly in the Harper layout in the number of chips and how they control power. But generally the miners are the same. So I was kinda hoping that there would be like more MidStates and the, the, the stock from or would be using, not like instead of four, just two, but that also didn’t happen. So all the, all this, all the recent equity funds, they use this AC boost from, from day one. There’s, there’s one heart in the line of thing. It’s on a 16 that only has two, two mistakes. So that was the one I was hoping for to have four.
And the, the stock from it would be using only two, but that’s also not the case. So I, I don’t have any well we don’t have any, any indication that there is something magic, but, well, let’s see what happens. But what I’m seeing is happening very strongly as that the manufacturer is like taking away the control from the users as much as possible. Or [inaudible] was very easy to be hacked because it would accept pretty much any firmer image that you feed it with, which is not very nice. I mean, it’s like if you take your Apple, it would just install any random application that you download on the internet, right? But it’s not even more of a breaking, but there are viruses out there that actually know quite a bit about the control board and you think it’s a magic, but it’s not so much magic.
They, once you have the virus inside it changes some settings. So of the, of the control chip on the minor a would just stay there forever because any, even if you bought it from, from an SD card and correct refreshes it other from work, when you do a next cycle of, of you know, when you recycle those right away because it’s an intersection of the flash memory that is like locked. So it actually looks at forever. I never, we never had a board like this. We just know the reports from the minors and we’d be like, we’re like super desperate. So they would like literally take racehorse as the card, put it in the minor, they would route it and they would hit the install to land, which or install the flash memory. I don’t know what it’s called exactly.
And they would not have any result. It would just come back with the, with the virus again. So things like this were dangerous. So manufacturers started protecting from this by signing their firmware, which is perfectly okay, but at the same time still the, the, the user is not able to like disable this with a brain. So as we took the same path, so on a, on a system level, it works like a regular Linux distribution. So all the packages that we provide for the firmer, it’s so is signed. So it would refuse to upgrade for from an unknown. You know, from an unknown source. But at the same time, if you want to add this unknown source of firmware into your minor, or if you just directly loaded in there because you have SSH access, you are free to do it, but it just your act that you agreed upon. It’s not that we as brains or plush fool have decided, Oh, nobody is able to do anything with the district. So this is a little different pillows over here where you are trying to hide a user’s safety and security. You know, behind X like this where you’re actually preventing them of exercising the total ownership, how you call it.
Yeah. you know, it’s always a balance. Do you have any suggestions that can be done to help create that balance to enable users, users to unlock their machines and have the freedom to do what they will, but also, you know, have a preventative or a stop gap measure there to prevent, you know, viruses from easily infecting the hardware?
Well I think it’s a combination of these two of these two techniques where you want the system to be robust and you want the system not to have any security holes. So you want encryption, you want digital signing. You want all these things to be present in the system to protect from viruses and things like this. But at the same time, you want to allow the user if he wants to, to override such things. Like when you work with a regular operating system, you were, I usually work as a, as a regular user. So chances are that any you know, TRO Trojan horse is going to get installed into, into my system is not very probable because I don’t work as an administrator. But at the same time, I try to want to do maintenance. I changed my identity to, to an administrator account and windows, Linux, it’s all the same.
And then you make the changes. So people are used to this from, from regular environments. And same thing to the embedded devices. At the same time you know, the mining farms are a little different and in that, that they should have network security. I mean, if anybody physically infiltrates on network, they can pretty much do anything. Now with strategy to technically as the miners are less susceptible, susceptible to a man in the middle. So it’s difficult to, to Heidrick shares, I think you’re heard in China, you can buy like dedicated boxes that you just plug in between the mining farm and and, and those boxes would just do the rewriting of the, and they do it in a smart way. So they’re like stealing like 100% of your shares, but
Siphoning off. Yeah. Yeah. Siphoning off from, from the huge farms. That’s crazy. You’re losing like two persons you would never notice. Right on a par, a hundred megawatt farm. If you lost 2%, you’d just think, God, it’s a bad hashtag, you know, like
Right. Oh, we had some outages.
We’re, we’re gonna we have a few minutes left in this show. I, and I want to try to open it up for some questions from people that are listening right now on YouTube. But in the mean, can you just tell us a little bit of what the difference between brain O S and brains O S plus and, and really kind of explained some of this for some of the, the beginners.
Okay. I will open the list as well so that I can go one by one. Okay.
So I think everybody’s got a pretty good understanding of async boost. Basically it just keeps instead of having to repeat work from scratch, it can continue or carry over some information from each block solve to make the next solve more efficient to use less energy.
Right. [inaudible] so this is the feature that we wanted to use that’s on, it’s only going to be in the plus version. It’s in the plus version.
Yeah, that’s a corporate version that has some IP of us that we use. And technically a part of the algorithm is also served by by flush for itself. So it’s like a distributed thing in a way. The attitude and can be used for two reasons. No you just the conversion from, from BOS community addition to BOS plus or brain service plus is a matter of installing a single package that’s part of the distribution of the open source distribution as well. That would do the conversion. And we also allow a conversion back to the open source edition. That’s very seamless, I would say. So when you, with the auto tuning you can also either shoot for four pieces is an interesting thing, right? This is, this is the a, this is the selling point in a way that we we have the deaf fee, but we’re willing to give away part of the deaf fee as a rebate to the poofy. So if you use brand, so S a you can mind with any pool and you can use any features that you like. But if you connected to some other pool you’re not eligible for this discount. If you mind with us with slush pool you are able to get a discount on the, on the mining fee.
That’s, that’s a very interesting option. Yeah. And, and in a sense it would almost, it would almost pay for itself because of the savings that you would make in the pool fees over time.
Right. And plus the uplift that you have in the performance that should, you pretty much should not notice that you’re paying the fee because you have an uplift of other performance. And at the same time, you’re also getting the discount on the preheat. Preheat is a feature that people who live in cold climates do ask for, is that basically the right, the firmware when it’s running
It has to run on a preheated PCB the, the, the performance of the chip even though you would say, okay, let’s just, you know, put it in immersion cooling or liquid nitrogen or whatever best condition, but it is not the exact case. And actually the chips at these technologies do require certain like working temperature. So in specifically in these cold conditions, even the, the tuning itself can start only if, if your miner reaches a temperature, a target temperature that you configure, and then we only start doing the tuning cycles. So the predictions is, is exactly meant for this case and it’s an automatic thing. So basically a whatever setting you have in reconsideration when, when it starts shooting, it would always make sure that you have the, the desired target temperature be fixed before it moves further.
That makes total sense. I’ve got a question about
Go ahead. I’m just going to ask what was your O S work well, in an immersion environment?
Yeah. it’s ready for the immersion environment. And the reason is that there’s a simple configuration option where you specify the minimum number of fans that should be present in the machine. This feature is there actually to make sure that the, the minor is not going to get damaged if it boots and the system doesn’t see the fans being, you know, spinning. But in immersion cooling, this is different situation. So all you do is you say, my minimum number of fans that I need is zero. Okay. That’s how it’s ready for an immersion cooling. And you disabled the we have like a speed control algorithm in there that, you know, regulates the fence be depending on the target temperature.
Okay. All right. So yeah, we have a question here from Rico. Liberty report says, yeah, you’re, you’re fading out, Scott. He says, does Yon have any comments on how layer one’s doing their approach to their new mining project with full vertical layering from the ground up approach, I noticed more projects want less middlemen.
I do see this as beneficial because essentially this is kind of a, what we are trying to achieve with brace O S right? We’re trying to provide a firmware that runs on physical hardware and that is well tested and integrated with the mining pool so that you don’t have to like hunt bucks and NGOs and the system. I’m sure. So what we were seeing from layer one, this is kind of a similar, a similar activity where, you know, ideally people want to like operate all these things completely standalone. At the same time when I look at like how much work and what is the scope of the project that we really had to undergo, including the mining protocol in order to secure the mining of a little bit more it is difficult to be an expert in all the areas.
So you could pick a specific domain that you think is the best place for you to be at intrusive. You like what you’re doing and you think it’s useful and you can survive. So that means it’s providing you some revenue. Sure. So that’s why, for example, we’re never a, people sometimes ask you, Oh, by the way, we have these megawatts here. Do you guys want to vote with us? Some, some festivals they were like, well, no, we’re not interested that much because we basically, this is not our region of pretense, but we can support like any mining of prayer, we can, we can help them with the software, but we like the physical operations of the, of the festival. It is super different sports. Which I’m not saying it’s not possible to expand to these areas, but sometimes it’s good to stay focused in a specific field that you think is the one that you’re good at.
I, I definitely think you are staying in your element and, and what you’re strong in and I can totally agree with you, you know just stay with what, you know, stay with what works. All right. Is there any way you can share with our audience your contact information? So in case our audience would like to reach out to you and you know, continue a conversation.
Yeah. my Twitter handle is @braiins. I have the same handle also on telegram. And that’s pretty much it. If anybody wants to check out the brain source, just go to brains, they show us.com and you can choose between the class version, which is the, you know, the touring one or between the community version. If you want to check out the open source parts.
That’s awesome. Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, yeah, very exciting episode with you. Very, very informative. You are a wealth of knowledge and, and just amazing and how you were able to come up with, you know, understanding that CG minor, it started out originally designed for CPU
and people have done little patches and fixes and, and try to evolve it in a sec, but you just said no, we’ve got to start from scratch. We’ve got to do this better from the ground up and kudos to you for doing that.
Well, thanks to hear that. But as I say, it’s a, it’s been a lot of work all the whole team.
All right. I think that’s going to conclude our podcast for today. I think Scott said some technical difficulties, so I’m just gonna say goodbye to our audience this time. Thank you again [inaudible] and hopefully we’ll be able to bring you on a, at a later time and another show when you have more information and, and you know, show us new innovations with the [inaudible] or the [inaudible].
Right. It should be coming in the upper month. So it was my pleasure being on airport casts. All right, thanks a lot. Yeah. Bye guys.