Episode 44 Summary

Episode 44 of The Crypto Mining Tools Podcast features Scot Johnson, founder and lead developer at Digital Shovel. Scot talks about his history with cryptocurrency mining, how COVID affected the industry, and all of the exciting new things Digital Shovel has going on in 2021. Digital Shovel provides continued innovation and competitive pricing through revolutionary crypto-mining containers.

Email Scot with questions and inquiries: [email protected]

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Transcript

Scott Offord:

All right. Welcome everybody to the 44th episode of the crypto mining tools podcast. And today we’re here with our special guest Scott Johnson. How are you, Scott?

Scot Johnson:

I’m well, Scott, how are you?

Scott Offord:

Great to Scott’s. Um, yeah, so anyway, uh, it’s great to have you on here. Uh, Scott is actually from digital shovel. Um, a lot of people know about digital shovel in the crypto mining industry. And, um, so what, why don’t you just tell us a little bit about, you know, digital travel and, and a little bit about yourself to get started here,

Scot Johnson:

For sure. Thanks very much for having us on a long time in a long time in the making here. Um, yeah, so digital cells started, uh, around the end of 2017. Um, I got into crypto probably a year and a half or two years before that, um, started with Ethereum mining, couple of graphics cards and one computer kind of Jerry rig together, and then one rig and then a room with him in my apartment and two rooms in the apartment and then an industrial unit. And we needed to expand beyond that and decided, uh, the best route to go was with a container. Um, we built our first container and people started to take notice of that. A couple of people. I mean, that was right during the crazy hype phase. I mean, that was, you know, just, we started that at the end of 2017 and in through 20 2018, even though there was the crash, um, the hype for mining was still intense. Um, and then people started to ask us to build containers for them and that’s how digital several was formed. Um, we now have a 20 twenty-five thousand square foot facility with full in-house manufacturing capabilities for pretty much everything we build with the exception of circuit breakers and fan, uh, that really allow us to innovate and bring new products to market quite rapidly.

Scott Offord:

Well, that’s awesome. Yeah, I know the, the 2017, uh, crypto bull run, what was definitely, um, an interesting time, you know, in, in the industry. Um, I know even things like, uh, hosting hosting for minors, uh, in traditional data centers or, or in farms was starting to get scarce and starting to get expensive. And, uh, you know, it seems like people just weren’t really ready for that bull run at that point. Uh, you know, now’s a little bit different, obviously there’s a lot more options. Um, and like you’re saying, containers have really come a long way. Um, you know, it’s, it’s not anything brand new, but it’s definitely a newer, uh, part of the industry. And in general I’d say, um, but yeah, so, so I mean, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your first container deployment? Um, you know, how did that go? Were there a lot of people doing that at the time? Where, where did you get your ideas?

Scot Johnson:

Yeah, so the first, first one was, uh, any theory of mine. It was relatively simple to fans and aside, and, and then our four fans on one side, some louvers and the other interact in the middle, um, which is kind of what a lot of, um, container manufacturers do right now, which is nothing wrong with whatsoever. Um, and following that design, I wanted to move into Asex and strive for a little more density and higher efficiency. Um, that’s when I came up with the idea to basically shift the shelf’s perpendicular to create a, what is now an R R V shape, or which we’ve got a pending patent on, um, that allows you to get unparalleled density and still maintain higher flow and a high level of operators space. Um, some of our units that are in the field have 2.5 megawatts, and we’re actually working on a new 41 foot design, that’ll have up to 3.5 megawatts in a single unit. And you, you simply couldn’t fit that many miners in a flat wall designed with proper power distribution in there. You could do it with all the minors, but you just simply would not have room for all your electrical panels and breakers and power distribution.

Scott Offord:

Right? Yeah. So, so like you said, I mean, I mean, I know, uh, in the beginning you were, you really started with just retrofitting, uh, shipping containers, right? Okay.

Scot Johnson:

Yeah. W we’d started with retrofitting shipping containers and I found, you know, through last year, as we were wrapping up some of our last 40 foot orders, um, we were changing so much in the container, uh, that the later we were spending on retrofitting a container, uh, was outweighing the benefit of going with the container. Uh, we’d also reached the economies of scale where we’re buying, you know, 20, 30,000 pounds of steel a month. I can now buy the steel so cheap that it makes more sense for us just to build our own units. And we figured we’d start, um, start doing that with a smaller structure rather than a 40 foot. And that’s how the mini pod came to be, which is our most recent product we brought to market.

Scott Offord:

Yeah. So that, that mini pod is, um, I mean, you built that really to be more modular, right? Yeah.

Scot Johnson:

It was to fit two, two main purposes, one to be modular. You can bolt them together and both physically and electrically to make one structure. Uh, and then one of the main markets, which has been our biggest customers is stranded gas place. Um, it’s meant to be able to pick it up with a skid steer or forklift, drop it in an oil field. You don’t need a foundation or anything else. The unit comes fully assembled as you see there in the picture, um, power distribution, ventilation, uh, security kit. And you can literally just put it on the ground, put your miners in and hook it directly to a generator.

Scott Offord:

Yeah. Well, that’s interesting. So, uh, and then I know that you, you also build, um, some of these containers that are specific not to hold the miners, but, um, to hold some of the other gear, right? Like how does that work?

Scot Johnson:

Yeah. So in the center of that string that you had on the, on the screen there for a second actually has, um, a switchgear skid. So we, we make available, you can see there’s a small gap there in between five of those units, um, in the ceiling, there’s a busway, which carries all the electricity, two main breakers. And those main breakers typically you’d have to have an additional piece of switch gear and a pad put in and conduit run up to that switch gear. Um, that’s actually included as part of the unit. So you can just have a separate skid that has all of your switch gear. Um, it saves tens of thousands of dollars of installation costs. You can literally put them together, have the entire thing bolt together in an entire day versus, you know, a week’s worth of work probably by the time you pour pads and run conduit and all of this other stuff, uh, we are working on as well, a separate skid that’ll bolt to that, but also hold the transformer with spill containment and everything built in. That’s not available to market yet, but that’ll be coming out shortly.

Scott Offord:

Yeah, well, that’s interesting. So, so really what you guys are doing is you’re, you’re making, uh, it’s, it’s as turnkey as you can possibly get, like you said, um, some of your customers are, are simply, uh, pumping these things down in oil fields, right. Um, yeah. And, uh, so you, so you’re trying to make it as, as easy as possible to get these things up and running, uh, for your customers wherever they might put them. So what what’s, uh, some more examples of, of where, uh, where these things are being placed.

Scot Johnson:

Um, so there’s a mix. I mean, th there’s regular convention data center place, so guys will just be buying power from the grid at a, an affordable rate, um, oil and gas production. Uh, we have somewhere they’re just, there’ll be at a peaker plant and they’ll do kind of reverse peaking. So the, with our smart PDs, we have the ability to remotely control and curtail load based on market rates. So we have, um, several plants, what hydroelectric dams, the U S where when the power goes above a certain price, they want to be selling to the grid the rest of the time. It makes more sense than I’m to mine. Um, so it’s the opposite of kind of peak shaving where you’re, um, just using the minors when the, when the rates low and then selling the power to the grid. So we have quite a few hydroelectric customers that are using them for that application as well.

Scott Offord:

Well, yeah, and that’s an interesting topic really by itself. Um, you know, Mike, when to mine, uh, and how to, how to do it the most efficiently and profitably. So, um, yeah. Well see, can you just explain that a little bit, you know, you talked about, um, basically what you’re selling the power back to the utility, or how does that work?

Scot Johnson:

So there’s a couple of different ways you can do it. If you’re a generator yourself, you are already selling to the utility, um, whatever you had available in other instances, um, say if you’re in Texas, for instance, um, you can program our PDs to look at what the 15 minute price market rate is. Um, and you say, okay, look, if it’s about five bucks, a megawatt hour, um, as a peak, I want to make sure that I always turn off my minors and the PDU will automatically do that in 15 minute increments. Um, you’re not always going to be paying five bucks a megawatt hour, but that’s the upper threshold. If you set that upper threshold, you know, your blended rate might be something like 2.90 cents. Now, obviously this is buying at transmission voltages. Um, different markets operate different ways. Some have day ahead pricing.

Scot Johnson:

Some it’s settled every 15 minutes, uh, as an example, what just happened with Texas with the storm, if that was an instance, and you were not in contract and you were playing market and you didn’t get in there and turn off your PDs in time, uh, you would’ve ended up with, you know, for most miners, probably a bill that would have been in the hundreds of thousands of dollars higher than normal, the smart PD would have kicked in automatically and curtailed your load, uh, instantly. Well, I shouldn’t say that that’s the important part is when it curtails it does it in a soft format. So it’ll, it’ll actually have a small interval of time between each minor shut off and each miner turn back on. So you’re not just flipping, you know, a one, two or three megawatts switch on and off. It’s kind of doing a soft on it slowly and slowly on slowly back off.

Scott Offord:

Yeah, that’s interesting. That’s interesting how that works because, you know, we definitely heard on the news how there was some, uh, residential, uh, customers who, uh, all of a sudden got a $17,000 electricity bill. And just like a matter of few days, uh, because of the, the, uh, demand rates. Right.

Scot Johnson:

You can just imagine, I mean, that’s, and that’s a customer that might have a hundred or $200 power bill. Um, you know, a lot of miners have 10, 20, 30, a hundred thousand dollar power bills. So you’re talking, you know, 90 X, what you normally would. That’s a big spike and we’re Mo most guys that we speak to a lot of them in Texas, if they are playing the market like that, they’re on top of it, if not, they’re using in contract though. So they are protected against that. But for that reason, that’s why you’re seeing, I mean, there’s several, uh, utilities and distribution companies that had to file for bankruptcy over this issue in Texas.

Scott Offord:

Wow. Yeah, no, I can, no, I can only imagine. So, so yeah, I mean, um, about your, your smart PDU, you know, so it’s obviously gone through an evolution, uh, over time. Um, I think one, one feature it has is the ability to identify each, each individual device, right?

Scot Johnson:

Yeah. So we have, we actually developed a smart PDU fully in-house. So even the printed circuit board, we developed them, we have the pick and place assembly, um, equipment in-house to do, to do our own assembly of the PCBs as well as our own software team. So we’re constantly upgrading the software on the minor and, or sorry, on the PDU and try to evolve as much as possible. One of the things we just came out with, um, with the way that it can identify which miners are on which port. So like oftentimes you go and plug in a couple of hundred miners into your data center. Uh, you have smart PD, which is great, but you’re using DHCP or DHCP. You have no idea, no idea which IP is on which port, um, the PDU, I mean, it sucks that it has to turn the miner on and off to do this, but it basically turns miner on and off slowly to identify which IP address was associated with which port, and then will map it to that. So when you have an issue, you can just simply go into your PDU and you automatically know what IP address was on there, which one you want to do a reset on. Yeah.

Scott Offord:

Yeah. That sounds very handy. Yeah. Because I know some of these miners, you know, they’re, they could be a little bit hard to control sometimes the, uh, the manufacturers really like to lock them down and, um, so they make it hard to sometimes, you know, SSH into them, um, or, or really do anything outside of the, uh, simple, uh, API interaction. Um, so that’s, that’s an interesting feature where the, like you said, it turns it on and off again, to identify the IP address and which miner it’s mining to.

Scot Johnson:

And it’ll only do that. If you ask it to like, not, everybody’s going to want to sit and have their miners turning on and off, some guys will use a static IP, um, another kind of neat feature about it. It has, um, not only temperature and humidity sensors built into the PDU, uh, but there’s also wifi on it, which can be disabled, but sometimes when you’re setting up your data center and your network’s not all set up, but you want to plug into your PDU to quickly see what’s going on with your minors, you can help hook in with a tablet or with a phone, uh, and just go on through wifi. It has, um, a wireless access point built into the smart PDF. Wow.

Scott Offord:

Very interesting. Um, and then the, so the cold start feature, is that something different or

Scot Johnson:

So the cold start feature is you can do it with a PDU alone. Um, it generally works better with the, um, uh, with the, the mini pod or in one of the D and R um, container products where if the temperature is below a certain threshold, if you programmed it to say, you know, below 15 degrees Celsius, use the cold start, what it’ll do is if you have the option of exhilarated heaters, which we offer a ceramic heater option in the container. So if you were, you know, your power went down and it’s completely cold, the ceramic it’ll wait till the ceramic heaters heat the unit up enough to start the miners. If not, it’ll try to start just a small portion of the miners on the bottom shelf. This will hopefully generate enough heat to warm up the rest of them. Not all of them are going to start out properly. Um, and then once that happens, it’ll power cycle, everything off, and then restart up the rest of the miners. Once they’ve come up to full heat, once a data centers come up to full heat while keeping the fans off at that time.

Scott Offord:

Yeah. Um, well, that’s interesting. Yeah, definitely. When you’re building these containers, you obviously have to consider, um, where these things are actually going to be deployed. So, you know, something like that might not be necessary down in Texas, but, um, obviously you’re deploying some of these, uh, in more Northern areas and colder areas that, where that might be important.

Scot Johnson:

Yeah. And for that reason in those climates, we actually have an option for a blower fan, um, that sits in the hot chamber. So once it gets a little bit too cold, the main panel turn off or it’ll pulsate main fan on and off while the blower fan is actually blowing hot air from the hot chamber, the lower bottom shelf is a one-inch duck and allow heat to come underneath that shelf. Um, and in some instances we have a kit that comes with the mini pod and our 40 foot that actually will block some of the intake area. So it’s just sheets ago where the filter to restrict some of that air coming in. Uh, the nice thing about the awning intakes we have is a huge pile of air can get in. Sometimes it’s too much when you’re in a really cold climate.

Scott Offord:

Yeah. That makes sense. Uh, so it looks like Jim has a question here, does the smart PDU integrate with any mining management software available on the market?

Scot Johnson:

So there is an open API for it. This is syndication obviously to get into the API, but we allow API access into it. So if somebody wants to use a third party software to manage the unit, um, it’s just a matter of them, um, integrating with our API right now. It doesn’t come factory with anything like that, but we’re definitely open to any synergies to, you know, use your existing software, allow you to modify ours, um, or hook into some third party software.

Scott Offord:

Okay. And, um, cool. So yeah, you know, just, just going back, um, to digital digital, digital shovel, and, you know, the, the market in general, you know, you said back in 2017, everything was going crazy. And then obviously there was the crash of Bitcoin. Um, how would you say that that impacted your, your business? I mean, you, you were just kind of getting started at the same time aren’t you with? Yeah.

Scot Johnson:

You know what I mean? It’s, it’s kinda funny. And I eat all the guys that work for us are always like, Oh, Bitcoin’s going down. Or when are we going to stop getting busy? I’m like in science we say, you know, like oil and gas where they say we have sticky margins, you know, we kind of have sticky volume where it’s like, when the price is going up, we get really busy. But when it goes down, we just get a little less busy. We’ve we’ve been steady. We’ve never not had orders. Um, now some of that was because, you know, frankly out the gate, when we first started the business, we were quite behind in getting stuff out of the gate just as, as many manufacturers were. Um, but even through, uh, 2020, we, we did reduce our production capacity. Cause we had to take a lot of staff off the floor and we still aren’t back to our original numbers.

Scot Johnson:

Um, we still had orders. In fact, you know, we had orders come in, I think March 20th of 2020 for, for 40 foot units. And then throughout even we launched the mini pods, I think, I think it was in June. Yeah, it was in may or June. And, and we were selling those units straight through those straight through there. I mean, keep in mind, we’re doing this. All Toronto is still in, locked up. Like I know the U S is slowly open. We don’t have restaurants or bars. We only last week retail stores were allowed to open with 25% capacity. So it’s been a very, um, people are always like, Oh, what, what do you mean? COVID slowing things down and slowing down deliveries. I’m like, you know, you couldn’t go to home Depot to get something when you ran out of it, you had to pre-order everything online. So that would take a couple of days to come takes weeks.

Scott Offord:

Yeah. So, yeah. And, and that’s, that’s an interesting concept, you know, just how, how COVID impacted, um, the, the economy in general, but also, um, you know, the, the mining industry, um, you know, I think for the most part, people who are buying containers like this, they have the foresight to know that, okay, it’s not always going to be like this, uh, you know, Bitcoin in general is going to go up again. Um, and, and they’re not just thinking about what’s going to happen this month or, or in a few months. So they’re, they’re thinking long-term so, so I could see how that would, um, you know, how your ordered wouldn’t necessarily just immediately drop off just because Bitcoin was low.

Scot Johnson:

Yeah. That that’s who, and the guys that have been through this a couple of times, you know, both of us know that like that is the time to build that’s the time to buy miners, not when a S 19 is 12, 13, $14,000. That’s when that was two, $3,000 a little while ago. And you know, most of the guys, if you buy at that price and your power’s in the threes, low fours, you were still making money at 3,500, $4,000 Bitcoin. Um, and it’s, and frankly, it calms things down a little bit. I mean, that, those are the times to build. I mean, not that now’s not the time to build, but given the opportunity in hindsight, you know, I bet there’s a lot of guys right now that are deploying capital. That really wish they deployed that capital six, nine, 12 months ago.

Scott Offord:

Oh yeah, yeah. Now, now they’re, they’re going back to their partners or their investors and saying, see, I told you, so we should have gone to the jumped on this, but yeah. Then everybody gets a little bit more timid. Um, but, but yeah, the, the, the real, the real big players, you know, they, they know, Hey, we have a plan here, let’s stick to it. We’re going to weather the storm. And so some of these guys are guys that, you know, they don’t necessarily need to be selling their crypto every month in order to pay their power bill. Right.

Scot Johnson:

Yeah. And the nice thing too is, I mean, this go around, um, there was tools in place for them to borrow against that crypto, which there really wasn’t that love there, there were before, but they weren’t, you know, institutional grade, uh, like there are now, um, you know, you, you, there was so much counterparty risk when you went and did stuff like that before. Whereas now so much of the, the financial, um, structures are in place to allow big players and established players to do things that allow them to, to float those peaks and valleys a lot better than they could before.

Scott Offord:

Right. Yeah. Yeah. That’s definitely something that’s become a little bit more robust in the last, uh, last few years. Hasn’t it? So, yeah. Well, I guess that kind of dovetails into, you know, I think you were saying earlier offline that you provide some in-house financing options.

Scot Johnson:

Yeah. So originally we were doing a rent to own program. Um, we actually just, it was great cause he, you know, for the longest time I was trying to get our units leased and treated as like, you know, uh, like a generator where you can get some pretty attractive financing rates. Um, and now we’re finding, uh, several leasing partner, well, one main leasing partner rather, uh, that’s actually willing to take on our units for oil and gas sites. Now this is just in Canada right now, we’re working on a us partner. Um, but they’ll finance our mini pod units for oil and gas players slung. They’ve been around for two, at least two years, um, at very attractive rates, um, like norm normal market leasing rates, not, you know, insanely expensive ones, like some of the others, um, that were available previously. Um, I need to update my website. I see what’s, uh, what’s on the screen there, but, uh, the rates are a lot more attractive than that for sure. Um, you know, some of them, I got a guy who’s purchased several right now with, I think he’s just put first and last down, uh, for some of our mini pods and they can do that for the 40 foot as well.

Scott Offord:

Yeah. Um, all right. So next topic, uh, yeah. W why don’t you just tell us a little bit about your, your, um, manufacturing expansion, uh, I’ve seen on, um, on Facebook and some other places, you know, you, you you’ve been posting all about this equipment that you’ve been buying, um, stuff that I, I don’t even understand how it works, what it is, but it looks like really big metal objects that help to lift things. And I, I don’t know. It seems like you guys are gone gangbusters there.

Scot Johnson:

Yeah. Lift press and cut holes. Um, so when we started, everything was outside, uh, we built our first 40 foot. Uh, we had a small little room with a CNC plasma cutter, uh, and everything was outside including paint in the winter. Um, it was a challenge, but we got them done

Scot Johnson:

In Toronto, and we spent the first part of the morning clearing the snow. And then the afternoon was fairly the actual building part. It was a challenge. Um, yeah, so we, we now have, I think 25,000 square foot facility. Um, we recently installed a CMC laser, uh, and a 220 ton, 12 foot brake press. Um, our arm design now instead of kind of building a frame and putting panels around it, we’re really trying to go more like almost like a human body of a car. So we take the sheet metal format to the shapes. We need a, an add in Benz to basically create structural posts within the panels on the, on the exoskeleton of the unit, um, and just pulled it together and then welded the unit in place. Um, we’ve instilled a robot welder, uh, which is not fully online yet, but it will be shortly, which will really speed up that process.

Scot Johnson:

Uh, and then most recently, uh, we’re just, it’ll come next week, a CNC turret machine, uh, which allows us to do a variety of things. So like punching and tapping, um, forming metal in different ways, uh, using, uh, you know, a hammer type press into the sheet. And, uh, it’s mainly things to allow our, uh, the development of our smart PDU to become a lot more refined. Most of what you see a computer case, uh, made, or like all of the forms on the computer case are made with a turret press. Um, so we have quite a bit there. We, we also just, uh, are willing to finishing up now with 2,500 square foot, uh, design and development lab. That’s going to be for the PCB manufacturer as well as our software team and other electronics based stuff that we want to play with an experiment.

Scott Offord:

Wow. So, I mean, this, this all seems to come fairly naturally to you. How did you, I mean, do you have a background in like engineering or

Scot Johnson:

No. I mean, I, I surround myself with some, some great people. Um, I grew up in the country and when you needed something, uh, you didn’t go and buy it. He built it. We had a family Marina, so I grew up around welders and metalworking machines and stuff like that. Um, and so when it came to the container, I mean, we had trades that were working on them on the first ones, what we were building. Um, but slowly but surely as we learned more and more, um, we realized a lot of this stuff we can form and fabricate ourselves. Uh, but the important part of that is we get everything you all certified and inspected. So it’s not just us building it, but Willy nilly and kind of throwing it out there. Um, there’s, uh, we have two consultants, uh, in, uh, not in house, but that worked for us, um, that are ex CSA inspectors, um, the consults on our designs.

Scot Johnson:

And then we bring the final product, uh, to UL, which ensures that we’re meeting both Canadian and us, um, electrical standards recently, we actually went to, um, it was a lot of fun. We went to, uh, a short circuit testing lab, uh, to certify our entire devices. So a lot of devices either don’t have a short circuit rating, or it’ll be very low, like 2000 or 5,000 apps, um, which is the amount of available fault current a device can handle, frankly, before it explodes or before it discharges sparks in an unsafe way. Uh, we recently had our PDs tested up to 50,000 amps, um, which is as far as I know, uh, one of the highest ratings for a smart PDU, uh, of this size you can get, I mean, there are other PDs that carry that high of a rating. Uh, but you’re talking five, 10 times the price.

Scott Offord:

Yeah. Oh, that’s incredible. Um, yeah, so we’re gonna wrap it up here soon, but, um, you know, I was wondering just the other day, uh, Bitcoin was at around 60,000. I, I think it reached another all-time high. We just keep on going. What, uh, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Yeah. So I was wondering, uh, you know, do you have any predictions as far as by the end of this year?

Scot Johnson:

I mean, I think I’m bringing the a hundred K bell, like everybody else’s right now, to be honest, I also think, um, we’re going to have a very large correction. I’ve got to stop calling them crashes. I mean, really the corrections. I mean, we still continue to trend up. Um, frankly I did not think we would be going this high this fast. Um, did not think these numbers, uh, weren’t achievable. Just, I was pleasantly surprised with a run-up as quickly as it happened. Uh, but did not anticipate it going up quite the fast. I mean, I, I can definitely see a scene thirties again, um, for a little while, um, twenties questionable, but I could see a correction back into the thirties, but there seems to be a lot of support, the bounce of backups. I’m not a trader though. I don’t getting into this. I decided early days, I’m going to either do mining or the other and not play the trading game. I mean, there’s, I guess there’s a difference between hedging strategy and stuff like that, but I mean, I try to leave that to guys that, that that’s their business. And I just try to focus on the mining side of things.

Scott Offord:

Yeah, no, I mean, tr trading is a, it’s almost a full-time job in itself really. And, you know, jumping in and out of your position, you got to really watch that. Yeah, my myself, I’m more of a trader I sell when I need to. Um, but yeah, I, I, I just try to hold, but, um, but yeah, so

Scot Johnson:

It’s been a good place so far. Yeah.

Scott Offord:

Um, well, let’s hope for that a hundred K coming up here, looking forward to it. Yeah. So, uh, for our guests, anyone who wants to get in touch with, uh, digital shovel with, uh, Scott Johnson, you can go to his [email protected] right there slash contact, and you can fill out the contact form, um, and otherwise, uh, Scott, where else do you, do you hang out online?

Scot Johnson:

Uh, you can email me direct Scot with one T a [email protected] Uh, my Twitter is digital underscore shovel. I’m to be perfectly honest, I’m not on their, a whole pile. Uh, you can get me on telegram at the same handle on there, on the regular. Um, and then, yeah, our website, digital shovel.com.

Scott Offord:

Awesome. Well, Scott, um, we’ll wrap it up here. I appreciate you coming onto the show and, um, we, uh, hope to see you very soon. Maybe down in Miami,

Scot Johnson:

I’m looking very forward to Miami. Thank you very much for the opportunity we appreciate being on. And, uh, yeah, Miami is going to be fun this year.

Scott Offord:

Excellent. All right. Take care, Scott.

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